Curse

Sekkira · Jun 13, 2005, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pope

Why should people work in a game? I've never seen that one explained. Only self righteous gibberish that seems to go quiet every time the question is asked.

God damn I have explained this one over and over time and time again. I should just record myself and loop it on cd for everyone.

The whole point of the game is to put effort into it and get a reward out of it. That does not translate to, work to a certain level to win it. It means simply to put some effort into it and enjoy it. A game is certainly no fun if you don't put any effort into it, then it wouldn't be a game. It'd be a movie. Guild Wars is not a movie either.

To me, the people that want everything unlocked sound like the same people that were brought up as 'gamers' and when they got to a part that was too hard, there was always someone that would step in to do it for them. There is no effort involved in that, there is no reward, pat on the back or self gratification for having your character beat a hard part in the game because someone else stepped in and done it for you.

It requires work and it is tough. But it is also enjoyable. The challange of not just breezing through it and instead having to really concentrate on what you are doing, to work at it and practice to build your skill and knowledge of the game's mechanics in order to pass the hard part.

If you can't do that in a game, it is not a game. It's just pretty fire works on the screen in which you controll when they explode. If you are not willing to put any effort into a game, don't play games. You are no different from the people who pay others to complete the game for you or the person who hands the controller over to someone else when the game gets 'too hard'.

Keesa · Jun 13, 2005, 01:54 PM // 13:54

If you think there is no challenge involved or effort required in winning PvP tournaments, that could be part of the problem.

Dralon · Jun 13, 2005, 02:07 PM // 14:07

If they have an arena where PVE characters, who got to that arena through the roleplaying route, face off against only PVE characters in pvp battles, the unlock all option would be fine. Those people who only PVP would be able to battle each other with all options open, and the roleplayer who wishes to do some pvp with that character won't be at a disadvantage against a PVP only character who got all his skills and runes free.

Being I have het to complete the game with my first character, this may be the way it is set up. But as I understand it, the endgame arenas are open to both pvp only and pve characters. Correct me if this is not correct.

CtrlAltDel · Jun 13, 2005, 02:17 PM // 14:17

I say after you beat the game once on your account you should have an UA* option, and that option should be presented at the end of the PVE game each time you beat it. Giving you the OPTION to unlock them all or not.

I have fun doing the PVE part of the game, but I cannot see how if someone beat the game...how or why having this option would ruin the PVE part of the game for anyone else.

Like some other people have said, 'ive done my time going through PVE once, dont make me have to go through it once with each character class that I want to PVP with'

Weezer_Blue · Jun 13, 2005, 02:25 PM // 14:25

I had lots of fun doing the PvE part of the game the first time. And the third time (cause I found a new favorite profession: Smiter). But really guys, the missions are all the same, with very small minor things. For the most part its. "Walk forward. Kill mob. Walk forward. Kill Mob. Walk forward. Kill Boss. Finish Mission." Occasionally, its "Walk forward. Kill Mob. Walk Forward. Kill Mob. Make Sure __ doesn't die. Walk Forward. Kill Mob. Walk farward. Kill random asortment of meaningful NPC's to story. Finish". Or even. Walk forward. Kill Stuff. Run like hell". There is no skill required for PvE that I have seen... Except for perhaps the Fissure and Underworld, but with a good group, I could clear out the Fissure twice as easily as I could take the HoH.

mikeydavison · Jun 13, 2005, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

To me, the people that want everything unlocked sound like the same people that were brought up as 'gamers' and when they got to a part that was too hard, there was always someone that would step in to do it for them. There is no effort involved in that, there is no reward, pat on the back or self gratification for having your character beat a hard part in the game because someone else stepped in and done it for you.

I think the people who want everything unlocked simply want to play PvP on their own terms. What possible reason is there for preventing them from getting everything they want out of their own PvP experience? I don't think any of us should be so presumptious as to dictate to others what is or isn't fun and gratifying. For some, gratification will come from progressing through the quests and missions and building a character. For others, it will come through using lots of different skills and builds in the competitive arenas. I don't think it's fair to assume that the things we enjoy about the game will be shared by all who play it. Instant gratification for the PvP players in no way affects my experience, so who am I to tell them that I think it's important for them to "earn" their skills in PvE before they can use them.

Spike · Jun 13, 2005, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReclinerOfRage

It'd be a better game if it was.

No it would'nt be. FPS's are BOREING. How to play an FPS in 3 steps

1 If it moves shoot it
2) if it does'nt move shoot it
3) If it then moves shoot it

repeat ad nausem.

IF PVPer's want to unlock everything then give them that option but at the cost of NEVER haveing a PVE character. if they have all the skills,runes and items anyway whats the point of them haveing a PVE character.

Weezer_Blue · Jun 13, 2005, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Spike, I don't think you have the right to tell me what I find boring or not. Which is pretty much what all anti-UAS/R people are doing in the case that it has no direct effect on them. And in any case, GW would still be far away from an FPS (a FPS?). It's completely different. I don't need twitch skills at all to play Guild Wars. Except occasionally for Mesmer and Monk, but those are rare instances. Guild Wars PvP is about making a good strategy in the form of a team build. If that is related to an FPS, I don't see the connection. What we do want, that is related to an FPS, is jump-right-in-and-play, a level playing field, and it would be nice if we could get some sort of statistics-related bragging rights (go to guild wars website and see your kills vs deaths in PvP in various arenas for various time frames).

Loviatar · Jun 13, 2005, 02:59 PM // 14:59

facts to consider (not just opinions)

1 an experienced team put this game together with core concepts in place for years of development and the 2 most basic parts are:

the level cap

no UAS (which has evolved into (UAS/UAR/UAU)

2 Anet is not going to change the core of their game soon if ever

the only question is if they will stay and enjoy what develops

Saerden · Jun 13, 2005, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

God damn I have explained this one over and over time and time again. I should just record myself and loop it on cd for everyone.

The whole point of the game is to put effort into it and get a reward out of it. That does not translate to, work to a certain level to win it. It means simply to put some effort into it and enjoy it. A game is certainly no fun if you don't put any effort into it, then it wouldn't be a game. It'd be a movie. Guild Wars is not a movie either.

To me, the people that want everything unlocked sound like the same people that were brought up as 'gamers' and when they got to a part that was too hard, there was always someone that would step in to do it for them. There is no effort involved in that, there is no reward, pat on the back or self gratification for having your character beat a hard part in the game because someone else stepped in and done it for you.

It requires work and it is tough. But it is also enjoyable. The challange of not just breezing through it and instead having to really concentrate on what you are doing, to work at it and practice to build your skill and knowledge of the game's mechanics in order to pass the hard part.

If you can't do that in a game, it is not a game. It's just pretty fire works on the screen in which you controll when they explode. If you are not willing to put any effort into a game, don't play games. You are no different from the people who pay others to complete the game for you or the person who hands the controller over to someone else when the game gets 'too hard'.

Now i understand: beating KOR : easy as hell, no challenge, instant gratification.

PvE: copy farming build, make sure you have farming build, go to place the farming build was designed for, farm, watch the nerf, repeat from the beginning with different build/area combination.
Challenge, effort, reward.

You dont seem to consider actually beating good players to be the challenge. Um thats the point of pvp. A farming race to arms is not, unless you can fight for the best farm spots. Hard to do with instances.

Also note that you can buy accounts on ebay and use bots that can put the "effort" into this game for you. Wheres the challenge in that? Not getting caught?

ManadartheHealer · Jun 13, 2005, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

IF PVPer's want to unlock everything then give them that option but at the cost of NEVER haveing a PVE character. if they have all the skills,runes and items anyway whats the point of them haveing a PVE character.

I mulled around that idea awhile ago, and concluded it shouldn't be put in. UAS, etc. would be for PvP characters only. Why shouldn't they be able to PvE every once in awhile and play the story through?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CtrlAltDel

I say after you beat the game once on your account you should have an UA* option, and that option should be presented at the end of the PVE game each time you beat it. Giving you the OPTION to unlock them all or not.

I also originally thought that to be a good option. But, still PvPers may complain about having to go through the game at all, or they would ask to nerf the hard areas because they are incapable of beating them. Forcing them to go through the game once and not at all are essentially the same, but the former is worse if they never want to play PvE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dralon

If they have an arena where PVE characters, who got to that arena through the roleplaying route, face off against only PVE characters in pvp battles, the unlock all option would be fine. Those people who only PVP would be able to battle each other with all options open, and the roleplayer who wishes to do some pvp with that character won't be at a disadvantage against a PVP only character who got all his skills and runes free.

If they do UAS, then this should/needs to be implemented.

CtrlAltDel · Jun 13, 2005, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

I also originally thought that to be a good option. But, still PvPers may complain about having to go through the game at all, or they would ask to nerf the hard areas because they are incapable of beating them. Forcing them to go through the game once and not at all are essentially the same, but the former is worse if they never want to play PvE

the hard areas will be nerfed anyway, at least the ones pertaining to the storyline, 'cause those are the ones the casual gamers will complain about, and those are the ones Anet will fix so that the casual gamer can finish the game

Lovag · Jun 13, 2005, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

It requires work and it is tough. But it is also enjoyable. The challange of not just breezing through it and instead having to really concentrate on what you are doing, to work at it and practice to build your skill and knowledge of the game's mechanics in order to pass the hard part.

Your argument falls apart completely here for some reason you think running through the game a third time or farming an area is enjoyable. Its not, yet I need to do it I passed the game did every mission and quest and at the end of it do you know what I had unlocked? 2 superiors 4 majors and a dozen minors out of all that I only had 2 minors for my primary profession plus I had a few useless gold items that I couldn't use.

If you try to argue I don’t need majors or superiors or good items then you have no idea about PvP and going from your earlier post that Guild Wars is not a PvP game it sounds like you have no idea about PvP. Guild Wars is a PvP game Guild Wars has very little PvE content PvP is supposed to be the end game hell its called Guild Wars. During the missions other then some very minor background notes you have no interaction with any in game guilds, guilds are not part of the PvE experience guilds are meant for PvP experience. Its fairly clear the PvE is just a lead up to PvP and PvP is meant for the long hull unlike PvE. Which then baffles most of us why we have to spend so much time in PvE quite frankly if this was a PvE game I would have gone on by now since I already passed it in fact most people would not be playing it any more most people in the PvE zones are people hunting for stuff to PvP with.

Which bring us to the problem of guild wars in its current state, the people spending the most amount of time in PvE are PvP not PvE players. Guild Wars PvE is designed in a story type fashion meant to be played through once in which case its highly enjoyable and PvE eccentric people obviously love it and so do PvP players unfortunately PvE players after passing it can move on and do what ever they want but PvP players have to grind away to enjoy the other thing they love PvP.

Samra · Jun 13, 2005, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shagsbeard

Actually, it's purely financial. Games like this, even without a monthly fee, rely on a concept that the industry refers to as "stickiness". Stickiness is the difficulty a player has leaving the game. Stickiness is increased when a player has some form of investment, either time or money, in the game. If pvpers could UAS/UAR there would be no particular feeling of investment. Right now, accounts hold investment based on what a RP character has unlocked for PvP characters to use. Without that, the game would really just be two seperate games... like Unreal was. A tourney mode, and a SP mode. Linking the two games makes a more dynamic and strategic game.

Now... why not let players choose? Give a UAS/UAR option and let players play there and see what happens. Make it a wholely different server.

Why not? Because it would make the game less enjoyable to divide us all up. Societies thrive on diversity. PvPers interacting with RPers interacting with all sorts of other people.

This was by far the most insightful post on this thread, in my opinion. Completely right on.

UAS and UAR won't happen, for the reasons Shagsbeard identified.

Weezer_Blue · Jun 13, 2005, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

2 Anet is not going to change the core of their game soon if ever

If the core of their game has evolved into grinding to unlock runes and skills, then I'm not sure I ever liked this game.

Sekkira · Jun 13, 2005, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saerden

Now i understand: beating KOR : easy as hell, no challenge, instant gratification.

PvE: copy farming build, make sure you have farming build, go to place the farming build was designed for, farm, watch the nerf, repeat from the beginning with different build/area combination.
Challenge, effort, reward.

You dont seem to consider actually beating good players to be the challenge. Um thats the point of pvp. A farming race to arms is not, unless you can fight for the best farm spots. Hard to do with instances.

Also note that you can buy accounts on ebay and use bots that can put the "effort" into this game for you. Wheres the challenge in that? Not getting caught?

Nice. I like to see people are actually reading why I'm against the UAS/R/I idea yet comprehend it as how they want to hear just for the sake of arguing against me in favour of it. Not once did I say, hint or even imply that PvP was easy.

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